elainegrey (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
elainegrey) wrote2023-02-13 03:43 pm
elainegrey) wrote2023-02-13 03:43 pm
Entry tags:
- advocacy,
- coe,
- dad,
- depression,
- quaker notes,
- trans,
- work
Fie (coe, trans, quaker notes, advocacy, depression, work, dad)
Work depression. Well, maybe it's not work. I just didn't get anything done but opening browser tabs.
I have some heavy ally work to do and i am not looking forward to it. Someone i know from twenty years ago popped up as a registrant at the virtual retreat for a Quaker queer community. They suggested they wanted an interest group to talk about the challenge of using "they" as a pronoun for a single person. This promptly raised alarms with other planning committee folks: people who are challenged by every time they are misgendered or dead named or all the other signals that respecting a person as they present themselves has less priority than making an attempt to remember a change.
I wrote, underscoring this community would focus more on the challenge of not being respected and would ask for her to rise to the challenge of using people's pronouns as they request. I offered to talk, and lo, the offer has been accepted.
"...for me, it is a serious communication impediment to use plural words for single people. I fear that this 'requirement' causes a wide-spread barrier for trans and similar people who yearn to be better accepted into the dominant culture."
Having watched people be challenged by calling Christine by her name or her correct pronouns for, eh, twenty years now i really don't think that using "they" in a singular sense is the important barrier.
And i am not entirely sure accepted *INTO* the dominant culture is exactly what the people i know want.
I remembered that George Fox had some pronoun rant that lead to Quaker's plain speech. I found that his explicit complaint (well, that part that was excerpted in someone's article) about the formal "you" was not the formality of it - the rank and class part - it was that "you" was a plural pronoun, not a singular. My correspondent did use "you" in the email to me, but i don't think that's where i should go.
I think my correspondent is probably honest that using "they" (for their grandchild) is a challenge for them. I think i will focus on their challenge, and not be dragged into quibbles over the use of "they" in the singular context -- plenty of grammar scholars willing to point out the hundreds of years of precedent, and plenty of style guides advise "just give up on 'he or she' and say 'they'." And i don't think i am going to be dragged into telling women that wearing pants is inappropriate and makes it harder to ... wait, no... telling Blacks that having natural hair is ... wait, no... No, i'm not going to discuss whether it's appropriate to tell people that they are asking for respect wrong. I think if i sit with my focus on their personal challenge, i can not redirect red hot rage at them when they derail.
Dad called and i spent an half hour with him playing therapist. He does have a therapist now, yay. I don't know how to ask for what i want, and i suspect he can't give it. I do feel he always calls for help, though, and never to give.
OK, my condition of enoughness is getting trees planted. And maybe getting tools in out of the weather.
I have some heavy ally work to do and i am not looking forward to it. Someone i know from twenty years ago popped up as a registrant at the virtual retreat for a Quaker queer community. They suggested they wanted an interest group to talk about the challenge of using "they" as a pronoun for a single person. This promptly raised alarms with other planning committee folks: people who are challenged by every time they are misgendered or dead named or all the other signals that respecting a person as they present themselves has less priority than making an attempt to remember a change.
I wrote, underscoring this community would focus more on the challenge of not being respected and would ask for her to rise to the challenge of using people's pronouns as they request. I offered to talk, and lo, the offer has been accepted.
"...for me, it is a serious communication impediment to use plural words for single people. I fear that this 'requirement' causes a wide-spread barrier for trans and similar people who yearn to be better accepted into the dominant culture."
Having watched people be challenged by calling Christine by her name or her correct pronouns for, eh, twenty years now i really don't think that using "they" in a singular sense is the important barrier.
And i am not entirely sure accepted *INTO* the dominant culture is exactly what the people i know want.
I remembered that George Fox had some pronoun rant that lead to Quaker's plain speech. I found that his explicit complaint (well, that part that was excerpted in someone's article) about the formal "you" was not the formality of it - the rank and class part - it was that "you" was a plural pronoun, not a singular. My correspondent did use "you" in the email to me, but i don't think that's where i should go.
I think my correspondent is probably honest that using "they" (for their grandchild) is a challenge for them. I think i will focus on their challenge, and not be dragged into quibbles over the use of "they" in the singular context -- plenty of grammar scholars willing to point out the hundreds of years of precedent, and plenty of style guides advise "just give up on 'he or she' and say 'they'." And i don't think i am going to be dragged into telling women that wearing pants is inappropriate and makes it harder to ... wait, no... telling Blacks that having natural hair is ... wait, no... No, i'm not going to discuss whether it's appropriate to tell people that they are asking for respect wrong. I think if i sit with my focus on their personal challenge, i can not redirect red hot rage at them when they derail.
Dad called and i spent an half hour with him playing therapist. He does have a therapist now, yay. I don't know how to ask for what i want, and i suspect he can't give it. I do feel he always calls for help, though, and never to give.
OK, my condition of enoughness is getting trees planted. And maybe getting tools in out of the weather.
no subject
Maybe (with regards to your dad) try writing down (somewhere safe) what you think you want/need from your dad - I mean, there's here, of course, but I'm thinking more of a private "morning pages" style exercise where you just lay that all out, and you don't have to get it right on the first try, and you may never share it with anyone...but it might help you to frame/understand it better? (Please feel free take or leave this suggestion as you see fit.)
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Also yes, practice practice practice!
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In a slightly different frame, when watching carers work with my mom after her first major stroke, i realized it might be useful to leave a list of words that i have in my mind for bodily functions and body parts that aren't usual topics of discussion. Someone was explaining to my mom that they needed to clean her "hoohah" and the bewilderment on her face made sense to me. "Hoohah"? Not a way anyone in my family (that i know of) described the vulva.
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The invented words don't seem to work quite as well.
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I always wonder why people feel that *they* shouldn't be challenged.
We had a Mystery of Absent Snow Shovels revealed in the last major snow dump, and now as it has it last melted a partial answer is revealed: Someone had left a snow shovel by the hockey net, where it was buried. I found it just after buying a couple of replacement shovels.
no subject
But no one likes language prescriptivism, and good editors accept that language will change.
Here is a video of John McIntyre my favorite Baltimore Sun editor explaining why he is prefers descriptivism to prescriptivism.
Someone declared singular "they" as word of the year in 2015, and boy do those word people get long-winded about the history of words.